Patch Finesse Timing Question

[Kaznaka]

If A gives B a 2, when should D respond? If D responds immediately, then after E plays w1, E would stop digging and assume finesse-bluff. But if D responds after g1 plays, then y1 y2 patch revealed and E would keep digging? But then there's a risk of B bombing 2 as g2. So if D plays after w1 plays, E might get confused as to how it played but would keep digging?

[_mg6maciej_]

Immediately. No player should assume it's a patch finesse initially.

B should think it's 2y, 2w or 2g and discard, so C clues either 1 on D or E, depending on which 2 B holds. Discards.
C sees it's a patch and will discard (or clue empty), enabling layered/patch.
D assumes he has 1m (possibly layered) and plays.
After E also plays, everybody knows what's going on and why C did nothing. If A holds 3y, 3m, 2w or 2g, C most likely can clue that card.

[Kaznaka]

You mean C would clue D 1s, and B knows his 2 is not y2. Would B wait for y2 to play?

If C did nothing, and both D and E plays, wouldn't E just stop digging?

[_mg6maciej_]

Why would E stop? C can only ignore 2 clue if he sees 1m on someone else.

[Kaznaka]

if D and E both blind plays y1 and w1 from a 2 clue, you wouldn't assume some sort of skip double bluff?

So basically, as player E, you know it was a patch finesse the moment D blind plays?

[springiest]

what is a "skip double bluff"? i dont think any such thing exists.

E should not stop after blind-playing w1 or g1, and the reason for this is because C did not react to A's m2 clue in any way, which means C must see m1 on finesse position (or layered) somewhere. since E is the only player who does not see m1, they know they must have it. E does not expect D to blind-play y1, but when D does so thats when E knows that a Patch Finesse is going on!
from B's pov, they know they must have one of y2/g2/w2/m2 because of C's lack of reaction. after D blind-plays y1 B thinks they have y2. but this is disproven immediately by E also blind-playing - at this point B should know that they have m2 exactly, because m1 is the only 1 that requires a Patch component to truly be on finesse position!

to answer ur initial question in OP, D should respond immediately! D should think they are playing m1 not y1. sure they might suspect a Patch Finesse when C chooses to ignore E's 1s, but they still cannot know for sure!

[Kaznaka]

what is a "skip double bluff"? i dont think any such thing exists.

E should not stop after blind-playing w1 or g1, and the reason for this is because C did not react to A's m2 clue in any way, which means C must see m1 on finesse position (or layered) somewhere. since E is the only player who does not see m1, they know they must have it. E does not expect D to blind-play y1, but when D does so thats when E knows that a Patch Finesse is going on!
from B's pov, they know they must have one of y2/g2/w2/m2 because of C's lack of reaction. after D blind-plays y1 B thinks they have y2. but this is disproven immediately by E also blind-playing - at this point B should know that they have m2 exactly, because m1 is the only 1 that requires a Patch component to truly be on finesse position!

to answer ur initial question in OP, D should respond immediately! D should think they are playing m1 not y1. sure they might suspect a Patch Finesse when C chooses to ignore E's 1s, but they still cannot know for sure!

I see, your explanation is clear to me. Thank you for that. The key is C does not react.

[dmpr0]

IMO C should clue blue. E would still search for m1. and next turn D would play y1 - it clarifies the situation and prevents premature m2 play

[Kaznaka]

I think ideally B should clue blue. Then, D seeing his FP is not blue would know immediately it's a patch finesse. It would also delay the double save situation on B's hand.