🌿ELO System Updates

[6element]

It is a question if (and why) a non-cheating behavior should be "corrected", but after reading this discussion I'm 100% convinced that bastardizing the math behind Elo rating just isn't the right mechanism for correcting behaviors.

We do not need lowered K. We do not need incompetent attempts to correct any behaviors. Revert this feature, return stolen Elo, apologize to community.

[6element]

I am still baffled how this got through quality control. But that's one thing, another troublesome issue is the complete lack of communication. What's with you people? Did someone in management forbid you to respond? Or is it by your own will? I compel you to reply, lordalx.

My current understanding is that there is no QA or an executive / producer / manager who cares about the company / community feedback / customer satisfaction, and the entire staff is extremely small (low single digits) and primarily consists of engineers and moderators. Which is sad, but somewhat understandable, taking into account their entire revenue is $3 per premium user per month.

[Meeplelowda]

I think there is absolutely also a non-cheating group of players that engage in behaviour that the power levelling change is supposed to catch.

There is a game in which my ELO adjustment has been reduced to zero. Guess what? I'm continuing to play against this person because we....like....the....game, and they will get better and/or me less lucky eventually. I'm not sure when playing just for the sake of playing became something that wasn't sufficient. I would continue to play on BGA without any ELO at all, just as I play over physical boards with no ELO.

[GeoPaladin]

I think there is absolutely also a non-cheating group of players that engage in behaviour that the power levelling change is supposed to catch.

There is a game in which my ELO adjustment has been reduced to zero. Guess what? I'm continuing to play against this person because we....like....the....game, and they will get better and/or me less lucky eventually. I'm not sure when playing just for the sake of playing became something that wasn't sufficient. I would continue to play on BGA without any ELO at all, just as I play over physical boards with no ELO.

I'm sincerely glad it doesn't bother you.

Personally, I like having a progression system in competitive games and find it adds a significant amount to my enjoyment. I enjoy playing with friends even without such a system, but in general, I find that having a goal to work towards significantly adds to the fun even in a game I already enjoy. You can imagine the disappointment of those who feel this way now that the elo system has been butchered.

There's no reason for you to begrudge the enjoyment of more competitive-minded players just because it isn't your own experience.

[Meeplelowda]

There's no reason for you to begrudge the enjoyment of more competitive-minded players just because it isn't your own experience.

This implies that one can't be competitive without caring about ELO. It may be that all people who care about ELO are competitive. It does not follow (as a matter of formal logic), that all those who don't care about ELO are not competitive. I assume that when you play over the board you don't try less hard just because there won't be an ELO adjustment.

I'll accept for the sake of argument that caring about ELO may be a sufficient condition for being competitive. It is not a necessary condition. ELO is just an external validation that some people enjoy, which is fine. But the (sometimes not even veiled) suggestion that not caring about ELO means you're just a casual player who needs to go sit at the kiddie table is grating.

[6element]

If you don't care about ranking (Elo or winrate or whatever else based), then your input regarding the change is irrelevant. If you're happy without Elo - good for you, but why bother providing feedback about modifications to Elo?

[6element]

I keep playing with Elo stealing. Here is yet another issue which bothers me a lot.

Elo of people who are playing once a month isn't affected by Elo stealing, while strong active players are easily losing 50-100 points a month. And somehow their Elo is considered the same thing? It is in the same ranking, same filters are applied to both Elos, it is called the same. But given the current rules they are two different things.

So the entire system is rigged against active players. Why? Incompetence or intention? Maybe the only goal was to reduce the general rate of playing (i.e. creating tables costs too much)?

[h_illes]

There is a game in which my ELO adjustment has been reduced to zero. Guess what? I'm continuing to play against this person because we....like....the....game

That's perfectly fine. I also keep playing.

But also understand that that's not an argument for the current changes; we keep playing despite the changes, and for me, it has made my gaming experience significantly worse. (The only reason my rating has not declined significantly so far is that I am outperforming my usual win rate in recent weeks, but that's not going to last forever. Once the losses start coming, I will go down hard and fast, and won't be able to climb back up.)

So the entire system is rigged against active players. Why? Incompetence or intention? Maybe the only goal was to reduce the general rate of playing (i.e. creating tables costs too much)?

In my experience, incompetence is the explanation for a lot of bad things in general, so I will go with that. But it has been going on for a long period of time now, which is very troubling.

As for BGA people: silence speaks volumes.

[GeoPaladin]

There's no reason for you to begrudge the enjoyment of more competitive-minded players just because it isn't your own experience.

This implies that one can't be competitive without caring about ELO. It may be that all people who care about ELO are competitive. It does not follow (as a matter of formal logic), that all those who don't care about ELO are not competitive. I assume that when you play over the board you don't try less hard just because there won't be an ELO adjustment.

I'll accept for the sake of argument that caring about ELO may be a sufficient condition for being competitive. It is not a necessary condition. ELO is just an external validation that some people enjoy, which is fine. But the (sometimes not even veiled) suggestion that not caring about ELO means you're just a casual player who needs to go sit at the kiddie table is grating.

You're reading more into it than what was there. The point is simply that it's fine if you don't care for it, but some of us do. It's silly to look down on people for that.

In any event, I will wish you well. Since the subject at hand is one you don't care about, I think perhaps there's not much more for either of us to add. Take care and I hope you have a pleasant day.

[Ownards]

Should we expect a feedback from BGA at some point or is this hopeless?