🌿ELO System Updates

[sorryimlikethis]

→ Power levelling
We encountered many situations of power levelling, linked to multi accounts, even if we are still fighting against such practices, it became obvious that the current system might encourage it.
To prevent this, any consecutive wins against the same opponent will reduce the amount of ELO points awarded from this victory. This reduction will be gradually higher as more consecutive wins are accumulated. This way, we encourage you to challenge other players to keep the original spirit of the ELO: show your skill at a game compared to the whole community, not just the same ones.

The intent behind the power levelling change is great, no one likes people who make multiple accounts to abuse the ranking system.

I would guess (with only anecdotal data to back it up) that cheaters make up less than 0.1% of the player base. It feels like a large change that negatively affects many people to combat a few. This doesn't feel like the right way to go about it.

The problems:
-In arena you can't choose your opponents.
-In games with smaller player bases (most games on the site) it's not possible to avoid the same players over and over if you want to actually play.
-Even if you could choose your opponent it doesn't feel right to be punished for beating an equal or stronger player multiple times in a row.

Possible solutions:
-Keep the diminishing Elo returns for normal mode, but remove them from arena mode. I have no issues not gaining Elo for beating my friends for the 5th time in a row.
-Harsher punishments for people who have been caught actually cheating. Permanent ban? IP ban? Am I going to miss someone whose only contribution to the site has been making multiple accounts and ruining games for others? Nope. Get rid of them.
-Remove arena awards for people caught cheating. Look at the current For Sale leaderboard. The previous "arena champion" is a serial cheater that has compromised at least the last 3-4 For Sale arena seasons. Their name should not be displayed as a former "champion" when they have been caught cheating.

I believe BGA admins are still monitoring this thread. It is natural for people to be resistant to change, so I don't mind them letting things play out to see what works / what doesn't work. Communication could be better for sure, but the fact that they haven't replied tells me they are still weighing things up.

[lezurichois]

Can we *quickly* fix the ELO system such that players do not lose ELO when one of the players at the table quits the game? Today in my game, another player threatened me to quit if I blocked some of their moves, knowing that I was the highest-rated player at the table and that I would lose ELO (and Arena point) if they did. (The player eventually quit at 100% of the game progression... I gave a red thumb, but that is all we can do apparently.)

I do not care much about ELO, but this is just crazy that this absurd feature might even be exploited by the exact players we do not even want to have here on BGA.

[Stroom]

How would it be whining when they explicitly asked for feedback? Besides, I was already directed back to this thread earlier when I submitted a support request. Also, if BGA sees this thread as a minority whining, why would they see a petition any different? (I am not saying they do, just that your argument is poor.)

Also, I simply don't understand what's happening. Why ask for feedback if they are going to ignore it? They didn't have to do it, they could have just said 'these are the changes' and that's it. But they didn't. So I am also looking for some explanation.

You already posted your feedback. Then you already asked for a reply. You don't have to do it again every day. It comes when it comes.

A petition is different in a way that you see the amount of people who are against the changes. You posting every other day only shows that one vocal person is against this.

Sure, the changes are bad but you don't have to harass the admins over it.

[TricksyFox]

How would it be whining when they explicitly asked for feedback? Besides, I was already directed back to this thread earlier when I submitted a support request. Also, if BGA sees this thread as a minority whining, why would they see a petition any different? (I am not saying they do, just that your argument is poor.)

Also, I simply don't understand what's happening. Why ask for feedback if they are going to ignore it? They didn't have to do it, they could have just said 'these are the changes' and that's it. But they didn't. So I am also looking for some explanation.

You already posted your feedback. Then you already asked for a reply. You don't have to do it again every day. It comes when it comes.

A petition is different in a way that you see the amount of people who are against the changes. You posting every other day only shows that one vocal person is against this.

Sure, the changes are bad but you don't have to harass the admins over it.

H_illes is posting in a forum which 1) has explicitly asked for feedback and 2) has been explicitly indicated as the correct outlet for this conversation. Nobody is being forced to read it (and honestly, by the lack of response, it doesn't seem like the admins are). Characterizing this as harassment seems disingenuous.

I personally think keeping this thread active is important, because people are still discovering these changes. As the thread is no longer pinned, it could quickly get buried. Perhaps others feel keeping the thread active shows that there is continued desire for a response (at this point literally any response). Perhaps others still just like yelling into the void, who knows.

But at the end of the day, this is the designated place for this feedback, nobody is forced to read it, and it really doesn't harm anybody if people post here. If you think there are better actions to take, you are welcome to take them - nothing is stopping you from starting a petition, for example. But right now you're basically telling people to sit down and shut up, which doesn't seem particularly helpful to me.

[Ranior]

I'm still really annoyed by these changes and also want to see updates. I also think it's absurd to ask people to stop posting their thoughts and opinions in the feedback thread for these changes.

As for the changes I'm still most annoyed by:

1) It's just an obvious bug that you can lose elo in multiplayer games when someone else quits. This has been corrected before, repeatedly, because it keeps popping up when they make changes. I've no clue how it keeps getting reintroduced and has not been fixed in this latest go around. The fact this hasn't been addressed is my biggest clue nobody at BGA is actually paying any attention to this thread anymore.

2) The power leveling change is absurd in what it is doing to user behavior and what it incentivizes (red thumbing players to avoid playing them just because you've been playing them "too much" according to the absurd standards of power leveling) This has been explained tons of times why it's a problem so I won't reiterate it all, but this too should have been changed weeks ago already.

I'm glad rating decay and red thumb abuse was off the table for now. Red thumb reform probably does need to happen someday due to players abusing it, but also for games where low reputation players/quitters exist, it's our only tool to try and avoid them since arena reputation filters are still far too lax, and the rep system is far too exploitable. Quitting a 4p Agricola game near the end of 2 hours is a very different thing and should not be so easily offset by playing 2p Can't Stop for a couple of minutes to get your rep back.

[GTSchemer]

Quitting a 4p Agricola game near the end of 2 hours is a very different thing and should not be so easily offset by playing 2p Can't Stop for a couple of minutes to get your rep back.

Now imagine once Twilight Imperium is released and someone quits after a 5-week game. I wonder if it will receive any special handling for reputation.

[h_illes]

You already posted your feedback. Then you already asked for a reply. You don't have to do it again every day. It comes when it comes.

A petition is different in a way that you see the amount of people who are against the changes. You posting every other day only shows that one vocal person is against this.

Sure, the changes are bad but you don't have to harass the admins over it.

So I'm posting some more feedback. After all, the situation is getting worse the longer they do not respond. I've also explained that I have tried different channels, and they directed me back here. Also, it's not just me, plenty of other players also post here (both in the past and recently), so it's definitely not just one vocal person. Also, in my opinion, when someone asks for feedback, then the feedback they get until they respond cannot be harassment by definition.

I've provided you with plenty of argument that you ignored so far. If you still want to continue the conversation, please respond to specific arguments. Or just not responding at all is also perfectly fine by me. Thank you.

[Fetacheese2]

You already posted your feedback. Then you already asked for a reply. You don't have to do it again every day. It comes when it comes.

A petition is different in a way that you see the amount of people who are against the changes. You posting every other day only shows that one vocal person is against this.

Sure, the changes are bad but you don't have to harass the admins over it.

So I'm posting some more feedback. After all, the situation is getting worse the longer they do not respond. I've also explained that I have tried different channels, and they directed me back here. Also, it's not just me, plenty of other players also post here (both in the past and recently), so it's definitely not just one vocal person. Also, in my opinion, when someone asks for feedback, then the feedback they get until they respond cannot be harassment by definition.

I've provided you with plenty of argument that you ignored so far. If you still want to continue the conversation, please respond to specific arguments. Or just not responding at all is also perfectly fine by me. Thank you.

You were previously moderated for defamation on admins, please learn respect and stop harassing them.

[GeoPaladin]

You already posted your feedback. Then you already asked for a reply. You don't have to do it again every day. It comes when it comes.

A petition is different in a way that you see the amount of people who are against the changes. You posting every other day only shows that one vocal person is against this.

Sure, the changes are bad but you don't have to harass the admins over it.

So I'm posting some more feedback. After all, the situation is getting worse the longer they do not respond. I've also explained that I have tried different channels, and they directed me back here. Also, it's not just me, plenty of other players also post here (both in the past and recently), so it's definitely not just one vocal person. Also, in my opinion, when someone asks for feedback, then the feedback they get until they respond cannot be harassment by definition.

I've provided you with plenty of argument that you ignored so far. If you still want to continue the conversation, please respond to specific arguments. Or just not responding at all is also perfectly fine by me. Thank you.

You were previously moderated for defamation on admins, please learn respect and stop harassing them.

How is this relevant to the question of whether or not to keep posting in this thread?

Certainly one shouldn't be rude to the admins, even if tensions are very understandably high. Keeping this thread alive (particularly when it's clear many people are interested in it) is not harassment. These two points are hardly related.

[h_illes]

You were previously moderated for defamation on admins, please learn respect and stop harassing them.

Yeah, there was that one occasion. I do not do that anymore. But I do ask for a response respectfully until they respond, and no, that's not harassment.