You’re losing, they’re lagging.. so just expel them to avoid a loss????!!!!

[Kruszer]

Speaking as a slower player myself, I only ever play real time games in slow speed and even that's too fast for my liking for some games, so I have to stick to turn based for those games. BGA offers us many options for playing speed - I find that making good use of them is the best way to have an enjoyable experience.

Thanks! I play for fun and I like to chat with people too (especially if they have a fun username or profile pic)... I wish there was a way to play real-time without timers But I think you can only do that with people you already have as friends?

The problem with turn-based is that most of the time people will play a turn and then leave for an hour or a day. I'd like a way to have the happy medium of a low-pressure game time but happening in real-time.

[nik592]

I wish there was a way to play real-time without timers But I think you can only do that with people you already have as friends?

Friendly mode can be played with anyone, you just choose that setting when creating the game (or choose games already in that mode). However, the majority of games on BGA aren't in that mode for whatever reason (some prefer to play with ELO/time limits/etc., some may not realise it's an option).

You're right that there isn't strictly a way to play real-time with long timers, but I've had many a game where it's turn-based but we're both/all online so we play it out quickly. That said, sometimes I'm online to play some moves, but can't stay for a full game - so at some point I may disappear on them and we're back to waiting (other players do this with me too, but no one usually shares a reason - which is fine. I signed up for a turn-based game, if they can play a few moves in a row, hooray, if not, that's fine too). Additionally, sometimes I am working through a long queue of moves, which I will continue to work through even if someone is online playing moves. They still get quicker play, but will probably still have to wait between moves, since as soon as I play a move on our table, I'm off to play some other move and won't come back til BGA's queue puts me there (which usually seems pretty quickly, but there may still be a wait for the other players).

I do generally only start faster turn-based games (3-4 moves/day, as the "fast" speeds don't tend to work well for me due to timezones), so maybe that's part of it - if you're playing against people who've committed to turn up on BGA several times each day, chances are better that you'll end up online together.

[chriswen42]

It's interesting, I was in a slight lead after the first corner of a heat game. I got expelled with -26 seconds on the clock.

[Cappa]

I admit.. I get distracted by real life sometimes… dogs, people, phone calls… I try to get back to a game as quick as possible, only to find that the losing player expelled me as soon as they could…is it really to quicken the game? Or are they just capitalizing on a way to avoid the loss… I think the karma penalties should be adjusted based on time delayed or score at time of being kicked out … there should be a way to moderate that.

It depends, but there are time limits for a reason. I feel like my time is valuable. If you are exceeding your time limit on almost every turn, regardless of you winning or not, I have every right to expel you.

Its ok to exceed time limit, maybe once or twice the game, but most games can give you 3-5 minutes of thinking time. There is no game on BGA that requires any more of this, and I play Marcaibo, Barrage, etc.

[Lady_Jane]

Life is hard.

Life can be hard (illness, starvation, dictatorship, war,...). But not because you kick someone or you get kicked.

Well said! I find that what often (but not always) starts as a simple question or comment, gradually evolves into a very passionate debate. I wonder sometimes if we’re losing perspective of what we’re discussing?

It all comes down to choice. As individuals we get the opportunity to weigh the risks and benefits (including potential consequences), which means to some extent we have to take responsibility for the results, and then make choices on how to move forward.

BGA (as with pretty much any site, game, organization, etc.) has a set of rules to be followed, and consequences for not abiding by them. We may not like every rule. think they're unfair, not thought through, or personally against what we find ethical, “sportsmanship”-like, or polite. But these are all subjective measures that we have to understand are different for everyone. We can debate whether expelling is appropriate, in what context, and under which circumstances or criteria, all day and never come to a consensus. If there were a consensus to come to, there would be no need for rules to be created in the first place.

However, the rules were created, and are available for each us to base our choices on. Deciding to play fast-paced, normal, or slow, real time or turn based, friendly mode, etc., with all the pros and cons of each. Deciding to prioritize real life (dogs, people, phone calls…) over a game (a wise choice) and the risk of being expelled. Deciding to expel or not, regardless of how and why, and whether to red thumb each other, avoid the other in the future, change to a more appropriate game setting, or continue in the exact same manor, etc.

I think it’s harsh to assume the intent of the other player or place labels or judgements on them (this goes both ways).

• The time offender may not be so much rude, as a bad judge of time needed, distracted by something, internet issues, etc.
• The expelling player may not be rude or a “horrible human”. They may simply be someone who entered a game, agreeing to the same rules you did, and abiding by them. They may simply not share you’re point of view on expelling, rules, and time limits, and this doesn’t make them any less of a person.
• Referring to yourself as a victim is incorrect, since again, you agreed to rules, presumably understood them, broke them, and the consequences for that were within the rules for the other player. You weren’t manipulated or tricked and weren’t forced into something against your will.

Labeling actions as extreme, attempting to make a distinction between 21 seconds, minutes, and “vanishing” altogether, and assuming they’re expelling as a way to win or boost elo, is really irrelevant to the fact that rules were broken. Where should the line be drawn? 21 seconds is ok, 56 is too much? Is there a grey area where we get to use discretion? If we all allowed players to go 21 seconds over without expelling, then that would be the new rule. Then players who go 22 seconds over would be complaining that they only exceeded the norm by 1 second.

While I can understand how it would be frustrating, it isn’t a valid argument against the expeller. Whether they expelled because they were trying to win, because they were cranky that day and had no patience, because they understand it to be the rule and don’t understand why they wouldn’t expel, or because they themselves had to suddenly jump up to attend to dogs, people, phone calls, etc., it was within their right. The time-exceeder broke the rules, the expeller did not.

I don't care that BGA says you techinically can. It's not nice and doesn't meet the BGA standard of "creating a pleasant and enjoyable environment for everyone".

As to the time-outs, I make no apologies for those.

This is in itself may be at the root of the problem… that you don’t care what the rules are, I guess means you think your set of ideals are more important and everyone else should bend to them and what’s pleasant and enjoyable for some, instead of following the rules which are designed to allow players to make choices which will allow a pleasant and enjoyable time for everyone?

In either case... that's definitely not me "abandoning the game entirely" so please spare me the judgment!

Things aren't always what you think they are.

This seems somewhat ironic, considering you’re assuming (and making judgements) that whoever expelled you, did so out of malice or spite, because they’re a horrible human, in order to attain an easy and/or “ridiculous” win, out of ELO greed, or simply to annoy another player. These two statements you made may be worth reflecting on.

At the end of the day, these are games we’re talking about. There are no real-life consequences here as far as I can tell. If we all play and make choices with this in mind, we shouldn’t find ourselves so upset when things don’t go the way we would personally prefer.

Anyway, just my thoughts, in what turned out to be WAAAY too many words .

[Silene]

Anyway, just my thoughts, in what turned out to be WAAAY too many words .

But great words. I liked everything about that post

[ganui]

it just happened to me too!
i was literally 2sec late on my clock and the other player kicked me out to avoid a loss cause he saw my strategy was going to win me the game… he has a history to concede (ben when ahead) and to quit so this way im the one that gets penalized and he isn’t… this should not be exploited this way…

[Meeplelowda]

it just happened to me too!
i was literally 2sec late on my clock and the other player kicked me out to avoid a loss cause he saw my strategy was going to win me the game… he has a history to concede (ben when ahead) and to quit so this way im the one that gets penalized and he isn’t… this should not be exploited this way…

As you were told in the other thread you started, someone can begin the process of kicking you when you're two seconds over, but they have to wait 20 seconds before actually kicking you, unless you are going over time repeatedly within one turn by using undo, in which case the kick cooldown will decrease (deservedly so).

The site allows someone to kick you for any reason, regardless of whether they are ahead or behind. Maybe they're bored. Maybe they have a train to catch. Maybe they were losing and you gave them an out. Doesn't matter. You can't control if someone will exercise their power to kick you. You can control playing only time limits that you can adhere to so they can't kick you.

[ganui]

i dont agree sorry... for certain games (liek ark nova) there are double or triple moves at times that would end up taking more than the time limit you have... you need to leave, you are bored, have a train, talk to the opponent and switch to turn based, or agree to mutually end the game. Its bad etiquette and unfair whichever way you look at it. There are situations that arent just "this is the rule too bad" as rules in our society are evidence based and follow specific dynamics... certain games should have a bigger gap then 20sec or an etiquette set of rules should be applied.
I feel there are no excuses to drop out of games... u get a game duration average, u can see the other person karma and strength level and can filter for games vs users within your same experience and karma... taking advantage of the base rule to avoid penalties and push that penalty onto the other player is a low, pretty crappy strategy tbh, whether is within the player right or not

[Cile]

I feel there are no excuses to drop out of games... u get a game duration average, u can see the other person karma and strength level and can filter for games vs users within your same experience and karma...

Karma filtering isn't foolproof. For one, all players start with 100% Karma. They don't have any reputation, and you're saying I have no excuse to kick them if every turn is going into the negatives by an additional 5 minutes?

Secondly, users only get a Karma hit if they get ejected by another player. (one of the biggest flaws with the current system IMO, users should not be responsible for enforcing rules and administering punishments.) So if a user is only going over their time limit later in a game, and other users at the table are finding it frustrating but would rather finish the game, then there is no indication with the Karma filters that this is a habitually slow player.

Which brings us to three: If there is "no excuse" to drop a player, then players who regularly exceed their turn time will never take a karma penalty for it. Making it impossible to filter them out with table settings.

taking advantage of the base rule to avoid penalties and push that penalty onto the other player is a low, pretty crappy strategy tbh, whether is within the player right or not

You can't know if it was to avoid a loss or not. Each table gives you +X time per turn, with an additional time bank up to a maximum. As far as I'm concerned that means X is your allotted turn time, and the time bank is your grace period. If you're in the red you've already exceeded both your turn time and grace period and there is nothing wrong with booting you. You agreed to a certain speed when you joined the game and you're not meeting that commitment. Of course, I only play turn based with a time bank of over 24 hours, so as far as I'm concerned there's no excuse. In a live game I would be more lenient if I could see my opponent actively playing, but only up to a point if it was happening continuously.

The fact of the matter is you have the power to make sure no one can ever eject you by playing within your turn time. If the turn time is too short pick tables with longer turns.