Banlist discussion for TfM

[Yahyra]

Some cards are much stronger than others in general and, sometimes, even more so in combination with other cards as mentioned. Kelp farming being enabled by inventrix (or the prelude), even stronger. NRA with the three plant tags? Much stronger.

The mentioned nerfs would make the cards less strong and the game less 'swingy', which I would personally love.

I'd nerf some of the other stronger cards. Stuff like Mars U / Olympus can only trigger twice in a turn. Artic Algae gives 2 plants for the first ocean played per turn, 1 for the second thereafter per turn (may be almost insignificant nerf).

The game designer (I can't spell their name sorry, Fryx_etcetc) has posted (on board game geek) espousing changes for balance to the game (buffing UNMI and Inventrix corps).

I'd love if BGA could incorporate these sorts of changes. Given we are still in prelude in 'alpha'... I don't expect we will have these soon. Wonder how much more money BGA / Asmodee (is that the company name?) will have to make from T Mars before they dedicate more resources to it?

Love the discussion everyone. Best wishes.

[nomad579]

Is Large Convoy a candidate? If you have Fish, Birds, Livestock, or Predators, it's worth 7 VP directly, plus 2 cards and whatever placement bonus the ocean tile gives you, for a very reasonable 36 MC and no requirements.

Personally I wouldn't ban it but it's certainly a card bordering on being overpowered.

[cranesflyhigh]

NRA and Kelp Farming are indeed very strong cards and way above the curve - I just don't find them as game warping as the 3 I listed.

Dunno what Fryx has in mind for balance, but I would welcome it. UNMI e.g. is super fun to play imo, but I rarely ever pick it due it being super poor and needing an appropriate starting hand.

Large Convoy is a late game point dump. It does give a gajillion points for sure if you have the animal for it and draws cards - the ocean most of the time does not happen when you play it though. The opportunity cost of holding it, the requirement of the animal and its own cost make it a huge investment though, and as just a strong point dump card, I would not consider it banworthy.

[FrostTomcat]

While the three cards you mentioned are about the top cards in 2 player games, I don't think there's a need to ban any of them.

There are many good cards in many different circumstances. Cards also have different strengths depending on the players or the pace of the game. Keeping the pace / tempo correct is actually the most fun thing in Terraforming Mars.

As you mentioned, Earth Catapult is a good card in two-player games until around Gen 9, or even later if I have lots of card draws (it's worth 2 points anyway). But what if I have no cards? I also wouldn't consider playing it if I desperately want to close the game in one or two generations.

Mars University is also great, but it's not the only card that allows draws. The good thing is that it's cheap, but the science label itself actually increase to the card cost—although the cost may be paid back by playing cards with science label prerequisites. In a two-player game, it's a card I might keep most of the time during the draft, but definitely not every time.

Things that give plants and animals are highly conditional. Large Convoy gives 7 VP only when you have Fish, Birds, Predators, and... Penguins ;p. There are many other efficient VP cards, including the Jovians and greenery synergies. Greeneries are most valuable before the oxygen track closes; after that, it depends on how many cities you have on Mars.

After all, there are so many good cards, and it's unlikely that you get none of them while your opponent gets all, especially if you turned on the draft. If that actually happens, try to grab all the milestones and terraform Mars as fast as possible XD.

[Nekojin]

I am amused at the fact that nobody has mentioned Deimos Down. One of the cards that everyone I play with loves to get and play, and hates to see others play. I'd have expected it to get called up by someone here.

[ice wizard]

I am amused at the fact that nobody has mentioned Deimos Down. One of the cards that everyone I play with loves to get and play, and hates to see others play. I'd have expected it to get called up by someone here.

Yes,Deimos down, GIA and big asteroid are great cards for terraformers. They can help terraformers to get 0-degree ocean and finish the game in advance to destroy the engines.With these cards, terraformers can spend less money on SP temperature to finish a game.Plants' removal also hurts.

[ice wizard]

I think Earth Catapult, Research Outpost,AGT are the strongest cards. I also like AI center, Mars University,Viral Enhancers, and Advanced Alloys. I don't want to pass these cards to my opponents even if I don't want to play them.

[HappyMeaI]

They need to update Deimos & Great Dam to current print. Deimos should only take 6 plants and let you place a landmark. Great Dam should cost 15 and also allow you to place a landmark adjacent to an ocean.

As far as cards being OP, there’s no such thing. Some cards are much better suited in different conditions, but the one card I’ve found to be pretty OP, or 3 cards should I say almost in any situation are:

AI Central - Can be played nearly any stage of the game with at least 3 gens left and only 3 science tags and will definitely flip the game in a decent player’s hands.

Arctic Algae - I never pass this over any card except for maybe Large Convoy and I’m still taking it with 6 oceans down. That’s how strong it is.

Protected Habitats - This card might actually be the MOST OP in the game. It’s actually broken imo. It protects the two main sources of pts (animals and plants) and practically allows you a free action every turn as you don’t need to play a card and place a greenery down. I would say if one card should be removed it would be this one. It’s also no fun to play against and removes a lot of strategy from the game.

If either of these cards are played in the first 3 gens it’s an auto win for a good player.

[Yahyra]

I am completely ok with the game developer (Fryx's) updates being implemented here on BGA (UNMI / Inventrix buff, Deimos rework, etc. ). If there's a bug / suggestion report for it I'd love to know to add my green thumbs up.

I suggest to my fellow BGA'ers that you share your opinions with player counts for the context of your opinion. In 2p games, Protected Habs is pretty good. I never play 4 or 5p T Mars... but I can't imagine ever buying Protected Habs in a 5p T Mars game... maybe with some sort of Ecoline high roll hand?


Best wishes.

[thulcandrian22]

They need to update Deimos & Great Dam to current print. Deimos should only take 6 plants and let you place a landmark. Great Dam should cost 15 and also allow you to place a landmark adjacent to an ocean.

These updates do exist as promos available for the physical game, which you can buy on Fryxgames' website. It's just the updated project cards, though; the landmark tiles are not included. From the way the post is worded, it sounds like HappyMeal knows this, but wanted to share in case others didn't know.