🌿ELO System Updates

Board Game Arena Official announcements
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JonS
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Joined: 11 December 2014, 11:34

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by JonS »

Great changes overall, especially requiring concessions rather than abandons in co-op games like Hanabi. A few suggestions:

1.
I like to climb ELO in many different games, but I don't usually play Arena or pay attention to when the seasons end. Rating decay will be very annoying for me as I like to play only a few games at a time and then cycle back periodically. Trying to avoid decay for all these games will ruin the experience for me (and others like me).

Why not just hide inactive ELO's from the leaderboard? I can understand not wanting inactive players to sit on rating and make the leaderboard unattainable for others, but it's not like they suddenly get worse if they don't play for a month. When they start to play again, they would activate their rank and show up on the leaderboard. Why is that a problem? They are still encouraged to play if they want to see their name in the standings, but aren't forced to cycle through every game every month or lose their hard work.

2.
I don't know if this is somehow addressed, but when trying to gain ELO, it is very frustrating when a player who starts badly disconnects or leaves the game, and you only get a small fraction of the rating points. I understand this is to avoid players conceding games to each other so that one player gains points quickly, but it's unfair if you always play out your losing positions and lose 100% rating and sometimes only get 16% for your winning positions. It would be great if you could reinstate full ELO gains for abandons unless you are playing against the same opponent very frequently.

Thanks!
I quit bga for a long time and stopped playing Hanabi because of the constant abandons (and the red thumbs people would give you if you refused to abandon), and was very frustrated that the issue wasn't being addressed despite many complaints. Very happy to see it finally being looked at.
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Jellby
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Joined: 31 December 2013, 12:22

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by Jellby »

JonS wrote: 25 July 2024, 15:32 Why not just hide inactive ELO's from the leaderboard?
That's already done. And was already there before the elo changes, probably since the beginning. The "all time" ranking is only for those who have played at least one match in the last couple of months (yes, a weird definition of "all time").
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JonS
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Joined: 11 December 2014, 11:34

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by JonS »

Jellby wrote: 25 July 2024, 19:13
JonS wrote: 25 July 2024, 15:32 Why not just hide inactive ELO's from the leaderboard?
That's already done. And was already there before the elo changes, probably since the beginning. The "all time" ranking is only for those who have played at least one match in the last couple of months (yes, a weird definition of "all time").
Fair enough, in that case I don't see the point of ELO decay, and think it is a bad feature. Why do we have to encourage people to play (when maybe they just want to take a break from the game) if sitting on rating doesn't clog the leaderboard?
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Zozoken
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Joined: 14 September 2016, 19:42

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by Zozoken »

JonS wrote: 25 July 2024, 15:32 <snip>

I quit bga for a long time and stopped playing Hanabi because of the constant abandons (and the red thumbs people would give you if you refused to abandon), and was very frustrated that the issue wasn't being addressed despite many complaints. Very happy to see it finally being looked at.
Has the Hanabi scene improved since the change? I only play with friends, but it would be interesting if these changes actually did end up making Hanabi a more positive experience when playing with random people.
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miklomike
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Joined: 02 May 2020, 06:25

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by miklomike »

Zozoken wrote: 31 July 2024, 13:08
Has the Hanabi scene improved since the change? I only play with friends, but it would be interesting if these changes actually did end up making Hanabi a more positive experience when playing with random people.
I'll let the Hanabi players answer, but if it's anything like the other coop games then no. I stopped playing the 2 or 3 coop games I used to play because seeing the experience of the other players is not possible anymore to any useful degree. For 1 point ELO games you can no longer tell who has played 2 games or 99 games. Or for higher point games you can't tell who has played a few dozen games vs 100s or 1000s of games. It matters and determines how you play and anticipate others to play.

It also means you can't tell if you are improving or not because you never see your ELO. For Regicide I loved playing with harder rules to earn more ELO, but if everything is hidden playing with the hardest rules and the easiest rules both result in just a "win". I only play in person now.
thedictator
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Joined: 20 January 2023, 14:48

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by thedictator »

A side effect of these changes is that it seems to have reintroduced a bug causing you to lose ELO on multiplayer games that get neutralized, if a tie is 'below'' your expected result.

As an example: https://boardgamearena.com/13/terraform ... =545353699

I'm not blaming the other players, BGAs servers really were on the fritz that day (as seen from the penalties immediatelly getting cancelled), but it's ridiculous that I lose ELO points for a game because the servers left us unable to finish. It actually seems I would have been rewarded for losing patience with the spotty connection first, because the player that did, DID get his ELO penalty cancelled.
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h_illes
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Joined: 14 March 2022, 20:08

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by h_illes »

thedictator wrote: 03 August 2024, 15:00 A side effect of these changes is that it seems to have reintroduced a bug causing you to lose ELO on multiplayer games that get neutralized, if a tie is 'below'' your expected result.

As an example: https://boardgamearena.com/13/terraform ... =545353699
Frustrating and totally unfair. Submit a bug report to go through the 'official' route, otherwise the admins will just direct you there anyway. Of course, once you submit the bug report, it will likely get ignored anyway, because that's how admins do things around here. I will also quote lordalx as he regularly makes lies related to this.
lordalx wrote: 15 March 2024, 09:14 We appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback regarding the ELO system. We value your input and are committed to ensuring a fair and balanced ranking system for all players.
The Nuzzer
Posts: 56
Joined: 14 March 2023, 01:13

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by The Nuzzer »

miklomike wrote: 02 August 2024, 04:37
Zozoken wrote: 31 July 2024, 13:08
Has the Hanabi scene improved since the change? I only play with friends, but it would be interesting if these changes actually did end up making Hanabi a more positive experience when playing with random people.
I'll let the Hanabi players answer, but if it's anything like the other coop games then no. I stopped playing the 2 or 3 coop games I used to play
I was just starting to get into Hanabi but I haven't played it since this change. I found without the ELO to use as a measure there isn't as much fun. Perhaps the more regular Hanabi players have found this change positive?
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GeoPaladin
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Joined: 17 June 2023, 12:21

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by GeoPaladin »

The Nuzzer wrote: 05 August 2024, 06:08
miklomike wrote: 02 August 2024, 04:37
Zozoken wrote: 31 July 2024, 13:08
Has the Hanabi scene improved since the change? I only play with friends, but it would be interesting if these changes actually did end up making Hanabi a more positive experience when playing with random people.
I'll let the Hanabi players answer, but if it's anything like the other coop games then no. I stopped playing the 2 or 3 coop games I used to play
I was just starting to get into Hanabi but I haven't played it since this change. I found without the ELO to use as a measure there isn't as much fun. Perhaps the more regular Hanabi players have found this change positive?
If statements in this near-100 page thread are anything to go by, the changes were extremely poorly received.

Unfortunately the devs do not seem to care to answer us.
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h_illes
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Joined: 14 March 2022, 20:08

Re: 🌿ELO System Updates

Post by h_illes »

GeoPaladin wrote: 06 August 2024, 20:33
If statements in this near-100 page thread are anything to go by, the changes were extremely poorly received.

Unfortunately the devs do not seem to care to answer us.
There is nothing else to go by. They asked for feedback in this thread, and got it accordingly. They just never responded or acted on it. Let me put it on display for like the 100th time.
lordalx wrote: 15 March 2024, 09:14 We appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback regarding the ELO system. We value your input and are committed to ensuring a fair and balanced ranking system for all players.
Hey, lordalx! Why ask for feedback if you are then just ignoring it? Depending on how you look at it, this is an unkept promise at best, or blatant lying at worst. It looks extremely poor, unprofessional and disrespectful either way.
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