BANG! Chat rule enforcement

[vadim]

I recently learned that there are multiple chat rules that are violated here in almost every game.
From here https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Gamehelpbang#Rules

Talking/Writing in chat: talking "at the table" is part of the game, as is lying about your role. However, as expressly specified by Emiliano Sciarra (creator of Bang!) on boardgamegeek.com, there are 2 exceptions that are good to know:

1) You CANNOT say/talk about the cards you have in your hand;

2) You CANNOT directly ask/order another player whether it is okay to play a card or not. (SOURCE: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/282531 ... lk-and-bga)

It is also not possible:

- suggest the cards to use or choose;

- suggest game strategies, for example indicating a target;

- you cannot suggest to a companion to kill you (to take your bounty);

- dead players or spectators, I cannot suggest or comment in ANY WAY;

- It is strictly forbidden to forward, for example, screenshots in public or private chats, with your role or cards in your hand;

- A player's skill cannot be remembered until after the action has already been carried out. It can be pointed out that there are some skills that have not been used and that it would be good to use in the next turn. Although many BGA skills are automatic or semi-automatic, it can happen, for example, that an outlaw Jesse Jones forgets to steal the sheriff's card;

- On the high noon expansion, you cannot remember the active laws or even the law that will be present in the next turn;

- Still on high noon, you can't remember which laws have already been released or which are yet to be released. (SOURCE: http://www.dvgiochi.com/bang_champ/Mate ... Torneo.pdf

I didn't know them despite I've played more than 1500 games of BANG! And I feel they are violated in almost every game. Card disclosure is rare but it happens. Game strategies and target to kill is selected in most of the games. This is often done by cursor sharing. Outlaws asking to finish happens in most of the games too. Dead players cheering up their teammates (outlaws and vice) happens really often too. Suggesting cards in not a rare thing.

We need to do something about this.
I suggest to disable chat and cursor sharing for this game because mostly chat is used for violations and inappropriate things.
If it's too much then we need to find a way to report a player for these actions. Current reporting system doesn't have option to report people for card sharing, plotting/strategies (especially cursor sharing), dead player commenting, etc. Also, some game announcement is strongly needed to educate people about these things. Classic BANG! rules forbid only card sharing.

[ChiefPointThief]

It is much easier to just accept that this is how players will behave on bga. Trying to police this sounds like a nightmare. Do you really want to spend time reporting people after every game if you could?

I do agree w/ you though that it seems like it is the norm here for ppl to do things they shouldn’t be allowed to.

[kuzestanx]

Every time I am amazed by these crazy rules that mock the players.. Talk about anything during the game, but not about the game!

Lying about your role is part of the game

Oh, well thank you very much for allowing me to talk about my role. Although, given the absurdity of the prohibitions, it is only allowed to lie about your role. And I am serious: once I was a renegade and wrote "hey, Im a rene, stop shooting me" and another player was indignant "you can't write like that". Maybe I had to say "hey, Im a sheriff+vice+outlaw, stop shooting me"?

You CANNOT directly ask/order another player whether it is okay to play a card or not

Lol sure we will no talk about cards, we will just say "hey Sheriff, would u like to meet Native Americans?". Waiting for applause from the author, as we are not talking about playing cards, but about traveling

A player's skill cannot be remembered until after the action has already been carried out

Wow, what freedom! The only thing is that it's also forbidden to suggest game strategies, for example indicating a target. So I can ask Jesse to use his ability (not sure, it's actually a strategy suggestion), but I can't exactly name the target

On the high noon expansion, you cannot remember…

It's really nice that the author sees his players as square-jawed gigachads with super high concentration and no hint of fatigue, ADHD or anything else. Of course, that's who we are

Good rules are respected by players and violators are punished. These rules are terrible because you can follow them if you want, but you can't force others to do the same. All you have is a red thumb and the knowledge that you'll have to block most of the players in the bang.

Rules should apply to players equally. Rules exist for everyone or for no one. The only way out, other than totalitarianism like to "disable chat and cursor sharing" is to use the chat and cursor together as you see fit, limited by the rules of BGA.

[ChiefPointThief]

You CANNOT directly ask/order another player whether it is okay to play a card or not

Lol sure we will no talk about cards, we will just say "hey Sheriff, would u like to meet Native Americans?". Waiting for applause from the author, as we are not talking about playing cards, but about traveling

I've argued this point in another thread and ppl do believe that because the rules say you are allowed to talk that means the example you gave above is fair game

Good rules are respected by players and violators are punished. These rules are terrible because you can follow them if you want, but you can't force others to do the same. All you have is a red thumb and the knowledge that you'll have to block most of the players in the bang.

Rules should apply to players equally. Rules exist for everyone or for no one. The only way out, other than totalitarianism like to "disable chat and cursor sharing" is to use the chat and cursor together as you see fit, limited by the rules of BGA.

I agree. This was a problem I had a 1st because I can follow the rules all I want but there's no way to police other people from doing things they aren't supposed to. And if you choose to follow the rules then you are at a complete disadvantage to a majority in the community who are not.

The red thumb system does not work here. You could literally play all day everyday blocking all the users you want to and still come across ppl like this. Bang has more new accounts and accounts that mostly play 1 game (bang) than any other game I've played. The best bet would be to create a group and play with other like minded ppl only.

[suomynonanum2]

You literally quoted from the wiki which literally anyone can edit. Those are not official rules. Those were just added by an overzealous player Maen87.

If you read them closely, some of them don't even make sense. They say "On the high noon expansion, you cannot remember the active laws or even the law that will be present in the next turn". Obviously an awkward translation, but by that, you shouldn't even consider the event cards, which is ridiculous. They claimed the following rules as a reference: http://www.dvgiochi.com/bang_champ/Mate ... Torneo.pdf

I went through and Google Translated the entire document and literally found nothing that references many of the restrictions they added to the wiki.

[AVTactics]

I like these rules and I do follow them. Many other players do not. I dont see how to control over players on BGA. Report everyone? Im not hiring for moderator. I understand that control over rules and players is made by other players when we talk about board game, in real offline world but in online space I feel tired always trying to control other players who often dont want to play a specific way, who prefer to play the way they want to play. In other words online games as being a coded programm has to have coded obstacles as moderator (for example an invisible wall which simply doesnt allow players to move where they shouldnt move by the rules).

From my experience the most oftenly breaking rule is about not telling/asking about kill an allie and get 3 cards. It happens left and right on BGA.

The best I can do is to follow the rules myself, which I do.

[suomynonanum2]

Please don't make up rules. You can literally read everything the creator has said on boardgamegeek. It's not that much. You can read the English rules, English FAQ, and even go to the extent of translating the Italian rules and still not find restrictions on the things that people want to restrict.

Don't be a "scrub" as defined by the Game Designer, David Sirlin: https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Stop making up rules that don't exist!

The creator literally said "table talk is one of the most fun and important part of the game". For those who feel like you need to restrict table talk, what do YOU consider acceptable table talk, since most people who feel like you need to restrict table talk are pretty much trying to make playing silently as the "right" way to play.

[kuzestanx]

The best I can do is to follow the rules myself, which I do.

Why not throw away these "rules" and play equally with everyone?

[AVTactics]

The best I can do is to follow the rules myself, which I do.

Why not throw away these "rules" and play equally with everyone?

I like them.

[ChiefPointThief]

Please don't make up rules. You can literally read everything the creator has said on boardgamegeek.

He says you cannot say which cards are in your hand nor can you ask another player whether they approve the playing of some card or not.

From my experience the most oftenly breaking rule is about not telling/asking about kill an allie and get 3 cards. It happens left and right on BGA.

This poster gives a good example of how that rule is consistently broken. When a player alerts their partner to kill them they are telling them that they cannot survive to their turn (telling what cards are in their hand). People also just flat out ask if it is ok to attack another outlaw which should be prohibited according to the creator.

Furthermore, isn't the fact the people need to read some random post on some random site to know what is acceptable within the game problematic itself? What the creator wrote in the post that keeps getting referenced isn't the same as what is printed in the faq of the game. This causes discrepancies within the community which is the biggest problem to me. Everyone should be following the same rules.

The best I can do is to follow the rules myself, which I do.

Why not throw away these "rules" and play equally with everyone?

I like them.

This dialogue right here shows the problem. AVTactics is playing the game how they believe it is supposed to be played based off of words like you say from the creator. So if this person is on your team you are at a clear disadvantage compared to two ppl who are saying whatever they feel like.