Hypocrisy of the situation - kingmaking, cheating

[pdpax]

I checked your profile, saw your most recent claim, and they have 200 and 180 elo.

It just look like they play together, not that they cheat.

And even if they do, what do you propose for those case? You shouldn't/can't ban for specific situations because many players want to play with a friend and knowing if they help each other slightly or not is impossible.

Well, they could block players with the same IP address from entering the same table, unless they are the only ones at that table or other users are informed and they agree to join the table. (BGA already does the whole IP warning thing)

The two or three people with the same IP could be the same person (obviously cheating), or they could be different people from the same network or house or office or something (probably not cheating). They could play against a friend who has a different IP address or against a total stranger. If it's a friend, it must be a planned game, so it's cool. If it's a stranger, the stranger probably wouldn't want to join. Either way, all players are told which players have the same IP address and are asked if they want to continue to the table.

Now what if the same person is playing using different IP addresses? Well, the system could keep track of the number of times several players play with each other, and also of the theft. For example, if A and B frequently play together and they mostly steal from others, then you could argue that it's cheating.

Is there a flaw in my logic/solution? (Also, I don't approve of crybabies. lol Read my earlier reply before judging this one)

[LightKnight]

Wait... You're telling me kingmakers CANNOT be reported??? Wth???
So if I encounter a team of kingmakers that don't break any rule aside from that, I CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT?!?
I have to ACCEPT LOSING REPUTATION in addition to LOSING ELO, or, if I am patient enough, to lose elo in addition to losing 1 hour of my time??
I faced a guy who had several accounts, at first it was suspicious because they were all playing against me, while doing suboptimal moves,
then it became obvious because they kept sending the Robber to the two tiles that I was the only one to benefit from (instead of other tiles, including one of a higher value (same res) and where I had a city, but the other player also benefitted from it).
(they would stop the offer once I would click accept, and then use the other account to send a new offer)
Then, at some point, the guy even trolled on me by offering a collective draw, using alternatively 2 of their accounts (I am almost certain all 3 were theirs, since the 3rd player was also conspiring, but that 3rd player was a little less obvious on some regards).
Since it was clear to me that they were trying to incite me to quit the game, I decided to be patient and make them finish the game. They might stall me but I can outstall. I didn't want to play their game - I guessed it was better for them if I simply quit.
In the end, thus, we all had a bunch of res and the game wouldn't end - I wouldn't end because they blocked all my possible roads, and they wouldn't end because they preferred for me to quit, I suppose.
The one thing that gave me the motivation to keep going was that at least I could report them all at last.
But
I CAN'T??
They had restrictive access from moderators, preventing them from chatting. So they wouldn't insult, whether they wanted or not. But that means we have no ground left to report them!!
I remembered when a team of kingmakers on BattleSheep got suspended, a few years ago. Did the policies against kingmaking get looser or something? What can we do now? Aside from not playing?

[LightKnight]

In "signal a player", they say all I can do is give a "public" red thumb.
I think I'm not the only one here that doesn't know what exactly red thumbs do, aside from preventing you from meeting again in the lobby.

[euklid314]

If you have sufficient proof (other games, not just yours) that those players are systematically playing with each other in order to gain ELO points (you do not have to prove that they indeed are the same person) then you can report them via "Player uses multiple accounts to cheat the ELO system".

If they are already muted by the moderators they will be known there and if your claim is correct they will be moderated even more severely.

[LightKnight]

My last comment disappeared for some reason, it looked like an informatic bug.
As I was saying, I don't know how obvious the case is from the outside general view, it is more so by reviewing my game, or one of the other games they've played this week - I checked the player's history, and the guy has teamed up with that one account/player since mid Monday, and ever since all the games have been aborted. I reviewed one of those games just to see, and the two accounts were clearly teaming up against the 3rd one here as well. Same as what they did vs me: send systematically the robbers to the other player, and manage to block all exits for their colonies.

[LightKnight]

I made a report.
I had tried clicking on the other types of report, and BGA would only tell me that all I can do is red-thumbing them. But the first option (they face each other to climb elo, something like this, the top-most option) allowed me to actually write a report. One problem I had with selecting this option is that they rarely get much elo out of it, since the games always end on a quit.

[GnimRodd]

ive never run into "king making"

ive got lots of friends, but thats just so I can readily pull good players with high karma for a quick game. and we all beat the holy heck out of each other....nobody has cheated with me so far. and the higher your ELO, the more you get the robber. don't take t so seriously, its just a game, have fun with it

[LightKnight]

ive never run into "king making"

ive got lots of friends, but thats just so I can readily pull good players with high karma for a quick game. and we all beat the holy heck out of each other....nobody has cheated with me so far. and the higher your ELO, the more you get the robber. don't take t so seriously, its just a game, have fun with it

Unfortinately, cheaters make it always suspicious when your opponents "play from the same IP". But yeah, most of the time, such players are playing a fair game. I even faced once a pair of 2 Australians who were actually always attacking each other, I even brought it up in the chat. It was a fun and chatty game.
I face several problems with Catan, unfriendly/non-talkative players*, never taking offers etc., as well as the many many times when players will prevent the game from launching (kindly reminder that the initial lobby system was better).
* There are some games which I identify as chat-friendly, including Not Alone for instance, and in those, it's frustrating when players discount that aspect of the game.

Also, sometimes you're given bad luck, I remember once when I had nothing for a few turns, then I complained in the chat (I mean, in a friendly way, I think), and suddenly all the following dice were in my favor for 5 or 6 turns, and then after that I once again got nothing. It was very funny. I had fun with another player. But the luck thing is just part of the game.

Anyway, but all of that is different from kingmaking. I'm assuring you that the latter is a thing, though obviously and fortunately it's in a minority of games. The only big issue is that the way for reporting this behaviour is very not transparent... In 3p mode, literally all their moves will aim at blocking a player. And sometimes they'll even flex by stalling the game for instance.

[LightKnight]

And one thing that makes it horrible in Catan is that:
the progression system doesn't work too well, so you generally cannot normal-concede,
you don't want to sacrifice your reputation by quitting the game,
in that case, you have to keep playing, but you have to respond to offers and play in your turns always in time otherwise they'll clock you (reputation once again),
and they might stall the game intentionally because there is a way in Catan to make have no option left (you can just wait for the 30+ min remaining).

[Jellby]

the progression system doesn't work too well, so you generally cannot normal-concede,

You can only concede in 2-player games. And as far as I know, Catan is 3 players minimum, so you cannot concede anyway.