looking for XP collecting turn based crew

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ufm
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by ufm »

Wreckage wrote: 20 September 2024, 23:18
ufm wrote: 19 September 2024, 13:47 The current rating system of The Crew (+1 for every game, even on defeat) is simply bad, after all.
This surprises me to hear you say this, when it seems you've supported elo that only goes up, and has no meaning, in the past.
I think I just detected a strawman :P
My view hasn't been changed since https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105659

The Crew's current rating system does not reflect either the number of missions played, the mission difficulty, or win/loss record.
For example, losing the first mission immediately and then ending the game awards 1 rating: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=565330247
And this obviously needs a fix.

Wreckage wrote: 20 September 2024, 23:18 The developer spent time asking people for their opinions on elo for crew, and no really great system was suggested.
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=134660 - A perfectionist fallacy.
'I don't like it' does not mean 'this suggestion is no better than the current system'.
Also, your proposal is not good for a different reason:
Tisaac wrote: 06 February 2023, 11:59 Or as other said, it would just turn out in a complete toxic community like the Hanabi one.
Have you heard that Hanabi is one of the worst games for BGA mods?
No wonder that devs abandoned Hanabi style rating calculation altogether for years.
Last edited by ufm on 21 September 2024, 04:33, edited 1 time in total.
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ufm
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by ufm »

richyfourtytwo wrote: 19 September 2024, 08:29 Hmmm, I'm not after ELO at all and it's not even displayed anymore if I'm not mistaken.

Also, have thise players with 300+ games gone through 300*50 missions? (I'm not claiming they haven't, but it sounds impressive.)

Anyway my 'endevour' doesn't seem to be going anywhere anyway.
FYI, co-op games suddenly stopped awarding trophies for ranks like Strong player, Expert, and Master after the last year's BGA ELO update.
If you are going for XPs in co-op games, your best bet is probably *TILT!* which is awarded when you reach 8700 rating and gives you 8700 XP.
And nobody has achieved it in The Crew yet: https://boardgamearena.com/award?game=1248&award=162
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richyfourtytwo
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by richyfourtytwo »

Thanks, I assumed that much but wasn't sure. There should be awards for n games/victories though before TILT though. And isn't tilt also elo-based, hence not working anymore in coop games? I'd be years away from that in any game anyway though. :-)
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ufm
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by ufm »

richyfourtytwo wrote: 21 September 2024, 07:04 Thanks, I assumed that much but wasn't sure. There should be awards for n games/victories though before TILT though. And isn't tilt also elo-based, hence not working anymore in coop games? I'd be years away from that in any game anyway though. :-)
Currently *TILT!* is the only rating related achievement working in co-op games.
Of course, X games/victories achievements still exist, as you said.

Btw, if you are going for trophy XPs, give solo-only games (not equivalent to 'games supporting solo mode') a shot as well.
These solitaire games can be played in normal mode: Vault, ECK, The Brambles, Orchard, Grove, Forage, For Northwood!
Last edited by ufm on 23 September 2024, 07:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Wreckage
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by Wreckage »

Actually, the Hanabi rating system was pretty good. People enjoy trying to increase their rating in a legit way. A couple small fixes like -10 points for abandoned games would make it great. If only.

The rating systems in all coop games are less fun than Hanabi's. The ones that continuously go up to 8700 are not fun AT ALL and feel like there is no reward/penalty for how well you play. It is so less than meh, that most don't even pay attention to it. Whereas the visible Hanabi rating was engaging and mostly useful. The abuse of abandoned games and bonus for playing with really low elo partners were the only issues, and not that difficult to find solutions.

Also, it needed a slight adjustment so that the same elo scores could be reached at all player counts. (the 3p penalty is ridiculous).
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ufm
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by ufm »

Wreckage wrote: 21 September 2024, 16:04 Actually, the Hanabi rating system was pretty good. People enjoy trying to increase their rating in a legit way. A couple small fixes like -10 points for abandoned games would make it great. If only.

The rating systems in all coop games are less fun than Hanabi's. The ones that continuously go up to 8700 are not fun AT ALL and feel like there is no reward/penalty for how well you play. It is so less than meh, that most don't even pay attention to it. Whereas the visible Hanabi rating was engaging and mostly useful. The abuse of abandoned games and bonus for playing with really low elo partners were the only issues, and not that difficult to find solutions.
YMMV, but the number of moderation reports and bug reports says otherwise.
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richyfourtytwo
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by richyfourtytwo »

ufm wrote: 21 September 2024, 07:28 Btw, if you are going for trophy XPs, give solo-only games a shot (not equivalent to 'games supporting solo mode') as well.
These solitaire games can be played in normal mode: Vault, ECK, The Brambles, Orchard, Grove, Forage, For Northwood!
Thanks, didn't know that, Will check if there are any games in that list that are fun to me.
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Wreckage
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by Wreckage »

ufm wrote: 21 September 2024, 18:09 YMMV, but the number of moderation reports and bug reports says otherwise.
Idk what YMMV means. Strategy co-op games have more criticism than non-co-op games. Hanabi is very popular, multiplied by a wider player skill ability than most games. So yeah, there's going to be conflict. The elo for Hanabi, when we could see it, was easily more of a fun element than any other co-op game on the site.

Recently, I've learned how to score 80+ points in Paint the Roses, something very few have tried or accomplished. The elo doesn't reflect or reward good play...so the elo isn't interesting.
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Tuut Tuut tis Luut
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by Tuut Tuut tis Luut »

richyfourtytwo wrote: 14 September 2024, 13:04 have them count as 50 individual games (rather more, as some missions surly will need multiple attempts). I don't know the exact mechanics of re-starting yet, but from what I've read here on the forum it seems to be unproblematic.
Let me clarify, in case you do find a group.

Dunno if it's different for some achievement counts.
But it only counts as a "win" after completing at least 1 mission successfully that session. You don't get a wins or elo points if you restart every failed attempt as well.

After every mission attempt the game asks if you wanna continue, it's as simple as clicking stop and then propose rematch.
You can manually set the mission nr in the table settings. But, if you start all tables on campaign mode, BGA should remember where you left off your last session and start you at the next mission automatically. (as long as you're with the same exact group of players).


Also had some more ideas that might be helpful for you.

I've seen players do 'no fail challenges' where they see how far they can get without any fails. After which they end the game and start a new table.

That way you can limit your game length, while attracting players with a fun, added challenge. Instead of putting them off with extra steps with little benefit (to them).
You can of course start at higher missions after each attempts to still make progress in the game.


Since you like this game, you'll probably love deepsea (the sequel) as well.

That version will lend itself especially well for the no fail method, as replaying even early missions can stay varied and interesting with many replays.

Additionally though, after the "final" mission deepsea has an epilogue, which allows you to continue almost indefinitely, increasing the mission difficulty after every win.

Once you're experienced enough, that might be a fun option. Play epilogue, either no fail as well, or just until your crew decides it's gotten too difficult.
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ufm
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Re: looking for XP collecting turn based crew

Post by ufm »

Wreckage wrote: 23 September 2024, 03:23 Strategy co-op games have more criticism than non-co-op games. Hanabi is very popular, multiplied by a wider player skill ability than most games. So yeah, there's going to be conflict. The elo for Hanabi, when we could see it, was easily more of a fun element than any other co-op game on the site.

Recently, I've learned how to score 80+ points in Paint the Roses, something very few have tried or accomplished. The elo doesn't reflect or reward good play...so the elo isn't interesting.
I personally didn't like hiding ratings in co-op games without rating reduction and tried to find an evidence that hiding ratings did some harm.
However, the statistics implied that the co-op rating display change did not have any meaningful impact by itself to either the number of game audience or the number of games played.
Meanwhile the number of moderations has decreased significantly afterwards.

Besides, gamed adopted artificial ELO simulation have highly upvoted bug/suggestion reports which request to fix that very element.
In contrast, co-ops without it don't have upvoted reports requesting your fun element. Guess why.

Again, your mileage may vary, but the number of moderation reports and bug reports says otherwise.
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