Milestones and Awards in 1v1

[charliec247]

We all know that 5 points for 8MC is very good, and is effectively a 10-point swing. My question is: to what extent are you willing to go out of your way in order to steal or secure a milestone?

Obviously no one is going to pay 58MC for Mayor or even 54 for Gardener. This is disregarding other synergies such as Credicor.

My question mainly stems from playing on Hellas. I've noticed that in several games the person who claims all 3 milestones ends up losing. In some cases they had nothing better to do than to claim the milestone (okay, passing is an option, but there's also scenarios where they had nothing in hand to save up for), but in many cases some milestones were contested and players tend to spend that little extra effort to secure the milestone.

The only specific example I have is me playing Ganymede Colony to steal Diversifier, which would have gone to the the opponent had both players developed their boards "normally". Playing the Ganymede Colony also got me Rim Settler as it was the 3rd Jovian tag. But I lost terribly. This is the biggest example I remember, as there are a number of less expensive plays made to take milestones. I've seen opponents run out Dust Seals to aim for Tactician or even Underground Detonations or Steelworks (without the power resources) to win Builder. Or even in games where both players develop "normally" and paying 8MC to score 5 makes them fall behind.

There are of course many games where the one who has all 3 milestones wins by a landslide, but in the games that I mentioned the one who didn't end up with 3 milestones end up so far ahead on the 3 awards that even the 3-milestone player buying one out of gambling desperation falls further behind, and this happens particularly often on Hellas.

Maybe there's something I'm not seeing.

Thoughts?

[FrankJones]

Depending on the situation, paying 54 Credits to steal Gardener might be worth doing. I assume you got that number from the cost of placing two Standard project greeneries and paying the 8 MC to claim the milestone.

But, two things to consider: Placing those greeneries might be more than a 10-point swing. It's also 2 points for the greeneries, and (possibly) 2 or more points for city adjacency, and also 2 TR (which also means 2 income) for raising the oxygen. And, there could be placement bonuses and/or ocean adjacency, reducing the cost. And then, maybe a car with an oxygne requirement can be played.

Also, I would view the cost as a true 62 MC net cost differential, because now the opponent can use those 8 MC for something else.

As for how far to reasonably go - yesterday I needed an 8th building tag and all I had was a 5 MC Underground Detonations, everyone's favorite card! I did have priority in the next generation though, so I waited, and drew Ironworks in the draft and used that instead. It actually ended up being a worse play, because my energy production never reached 4, and thus I never used the ironworks. So, I wasted 13 MC to buy and play the card, possibly missing the chance to draft something else, and created a net 16 MC swing from my having to pay the 8 MC for the milestone while my opponent did not.

EDIT - I just read the second part of your post. That's funny Were we playing yesterday, in that game I described needing to choose between the two cards you mentioned to swipe builder?

It's probably just a coincidence.

[Ep Sabres]

I would say that SP'ing for a city/greenery is well worth it to grab the last award if the other player would get it on their next turn. That's 23 or 25 + 8 MC that you spend and 8 MC that your opponent saves for a total of 39 or 41. Greeneries are worth 2 on their own, more if you can take the bonus temperature bump. So it's more like 39 MC for a 12 point swing.

Other times it can be worth it to ignore the awards and focusing on your engine. Sometimes 8 MC can be enough to derail your development, or cause the rush player to take an extra generation to close out the parameters. Usually it's worth the delay, but if it causes the game to extend an extra generation then sometimes that's worth more than 10 points to your opponent that is playing the engine strategy.

[charliec247]

Thanks for the feedback! I certainly did not consider the opponent saving 8MC as part of my calculations nor did I ever consider the possibility of letting the opponent have a milestone to delay the game by a generation. On reflection I've noticed that I've been a little too desperate to claim milestones and was making suboptimal plays. Taking the above two points into consideration I noticed I've played better when it comes to managing milestones.

Were we playing yesterday, in that game I described needing to choose between the two cards you mentioned to swipe builder?

No, sorry, my Underground Detonations example was from a very long time ago.

[FrankJones]

Even in the end-game, where tempo is no longer an issue and the game is definitely ending that generation, the last award can be tricky in a 2-player game. At that point, it's 20 MC I spend versus 20 MC the other player saves, to gain the 5 points that, if my opponent gets those points, would be a 40-MC swing for me but a 10-point swing. Sometimes that isn't worth it. Also, if the other player cannot fud any of the awards because he or she will no win any of the remaining 3, then, for you, it becomes a question of, "Can I do better than scoring 5 points for these 20 MC". In a lot of my games, the answer is yes. A heavily discounted Interstellar colony ship. Advanced Ecosystems when Decomposers / Ecological zone / viral enhancers is in play. A Jovian multiplier. playing "Open City" next to 3 greeneries, which I already 4 points, and then the extra plants give another greenery, and maybe adds a scoring pet to the pets card, and maybe adds a point to immigration shuttles.

Sometimes I have games where my card draws and discounts are so strong, I score 45 points with 60-70 MC spent. Especially without preludes, which is how I prefer to play. Generation 13 or 14 can get pretty wild.

[Sidebar]:

I was thinking of writing a separate thread detailing one of the crazier sequences I had. I started the generation with 67 MC, 4 steel, one titanium, 6 plants, 10 power, 12 heat. After buying 3 cards in the draft and 2 more from my blue card actions, I had 52 MC left.

In the ensuing sequence, I played 29 cards, and did various other actions, resulting in 6 oceans placed, 7 temperature bumps, 8 oxygen raises, 24 TR increases (including those 21, of course),  11 VP from cards with specific points, 27 more VP from cards with resources ( ! ) , 4 city points, 6 greenery points, Steel production +2, MC production +15 (So, 39 total additional MC income), and plant production of +26 ( !!), which was actually +29 but two of the cards required reducing my own production. Altogether it was 72 points, and set up the final generation for huge points (There was still one necessary oxygen bump remaining). And then in the final greenery phase there would have been another big batch of points.

[End Sidebar]


With the milestones, one strategy is to threaten them even if you cannot claim it. Play a 7th building tag even if you don't have an 8th. Make your opponent play a bad building card to claim the milestone that will be his anyway. (Underground detonations!) Threaten planner even if your opponent could get on first action next gen, but only by paying 12 MC for 4 cards (some of which might be discards later) and then paying 8 MC for the milestone, and now it is often an empty generation for that player, while you start cashing in your good cards and gain a lot of momentum. Maybe you are on the fence about whether to play Phobos space colony or Plantation, but by doing so, you scare your opponent into an ill-advised play because now his or her May or Gardener is at risk.

Etc.

I had a recent game that was as close as a game can be. I had no idea who was going to win, because that isn't always easy to determine. My opponent could have funded any of the remaining awards (I think) for 5 points for 20 MC. Instead, my opponent did other things. I looked back at the game, thinking there must have been a way to fund the award for 20 MC and score more points, but, no, The one big card played was Methane from Titan, which also scored 5 points. I was hanging on for dear life with a game that had not been going well and required a lot of standard projects from me in a desperate attempt to end the game. The final generation, I was outscored 18-5. Scoring 5 points in a final generation is sad.

Final score: 83-83. Tiebreaker, 67MC - 66 MC in my favor. There was no way for the opponent to place the final two greeneries next to an ocean without sacrificing a city point, which would have made the extra 2 MC from the ocean irrelevant.

So, although my first thought was, "surely an award fund for 5 points would have won it", but, I do not think it was the case. And that can be very difficult to calculate when cashing a big hand with a lot of points. 9In this game, with such a low score, I consider the 18 points my opponent sored "a lot". Especially since I scored 5

[Wacky1]

In 2player, milestones are even more important imo. I usually play doing almost anything to get them; I have at points discarded 3-5 cards to claim a milestone I was not sure I could keep the next gen.

My point of view in 2 player strategy is as follows:

- If the game status quo yields to my deterministic win, keep doing what I am doing.

-If an opponent claiming a milestone can lead to my deterministic win no longer being secured, act to address this (either claim that milestone myself or claim all three etc. .).

-If the game status quo is up in the air or I am losing, act accordingly to give myself a chance to win.


(I guess this is not limited to 2p but still).

About awards, I play around ELO 350; at my ELO plenty of games are decided by having my opponent fund an award (or a few) and flipping them in my favor. Of course this is a misplay; I never fund an award I am very sure I will win unless I am already losing and a YOLO / risky fund is a sliver of hope.

Thanks for the strategy posts! Best wishes.

[charliec247]

One situation I'm encountering more and more often relating to this topic of milestones vs. development management: the Energizer milestone on Hellas (and, to an extent, Engineer on Vastitas Borealis). To put it simply: do I boost my energy production to 6 and buy the milestone or do I play the energy-sapping production card now? Often if I go for milestone the production card is delayed by 1-2 generations (because of the need to boost energy to 6 and then claim the milestone because this decision point is often made at 3-4 energy production while holding a energy production boosting card). Sometimes going for the milestone has been correct and sometimes playing production is correct. It's an interesting dilemma.

[RoyalRook]

It won't be such a dilemma if you are playing with Colony expansion You take the power. You know what? I am going to write an expanded article on power from jay's original concepts in the steam community. It's time to talk about productions metrics in general, it may take me a while and I don't know how deep I want to go yet. So stay tuned, it's going to be cool.

[FrankJones]

Jay, as in Jaymc1130? If I am remembering the name correctly.

[RoyalRook]

Jay, as in Jaymc1130? If I am remembering the name correctly.

Yes, he is no doubt one of if not THE best player in the world in the early days. One of my best friends in the community. Go read ALL his article on Board Game Geek, they will level you up and save you 2000+ hours of game play. Till this day I don't know why, but somehow my playing style counters his really well among the top players, maybe because I study his game alot and read all his high level concepts. Highlander also helped me a lot and made far better Phobolog player, it's actually one of my favorite corps because how much more efficient I play the corp more than others.