Two actions mostly all the time please

[bwalsh96]

This thread is getting out of hand. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Take whatever number of actions you want because, on average, high elo players will copy your tempo and win … or they will just two action to speed up the game and win.

It’ll be better for the general group here if we focus on how to improve your gameplay. For example, a thread on middle game decisions would be significantly more beneficial than debating action sequencing.

[FrankJones]

This thread is getting out of hand. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Take whatever number of actions you want because, on average, high elo players will copy your tempo and win … or they will just two action to speed up the game and win.

Exactly. Generally speaking, the higher-rated player will win.

This thread also completely misses a main point:
A player could take 2 actions every time and still use twice as much clock as a player who takes 1 action 33% of the time and 2 actions 67% of the time.

I understand that people find it annoying when an opponent causes a game to move slowly, but is it any less frustrating when an opponent thinks for 2 minutes and then does 2 actions?

And, if the elites making the most noise in this thread are so bothered by game length, why are they playing low-Elo players in the first place, when such players are likely to player slower in general due to understanding the game less than the higher-Elo opponent?

To make an analogy, when I play Azul, I am generally confused by the game situation. It probably often takes me minutes to find a move that a master-level player would find in 15 seconds. It would be rather absurd for a master-level player to play against me and then complain that my moves are taking too long.


Back to Terraforming Mars: So, when both players have 8 heat, and the temperature track is at -28 or -24, am I really to understand that master-level players just blaze ahead and raise the temperature with the 8 heat, thus giving the bonus to the opponent? Why would anyone do that?

[bwalsh96]

I think you are just missing my point. I would recommend you just go watch some high level games instead of debating action sequencing. There are more important things to learn. Your heat bump question just ignores the entire premise laid out by top players.

[FrankJones]

I think you are just missing my point. I would recommend you just go watch some high level games instead of debating action sequencing. There are more important things to learn. Your heat bump question just ignores the entire premise laid out by top players.

If I am missing your point, perhaps your point has not been explained well? Or, maybe I am just too much of a scrubby player with my sad measly 501 Elo to understand the grand thought processes of the true elites.

I do not need to "watch high-level games" to understand that some people wish to dictate how other people choose to allocate their actions, nor do I need to watch high-level games to understand that I will never agree with this attitude.

This condescending attitude expressed by you and Royal rook and a few others leaves me with no desire to participate in this nonsense or be part of this special club of elitists.

I consider this behavior to be harmful to the overall TFM community, especially to newer or lower-level players who may feel bullied and/or intimidated.

[FrankJones]

Ever heard of Dunning–Kruger effect? After 12 pages of discussion, it's established that 2 action per turn is a common practice among top players, the top players will do anything to win, but apparently they missed the hidden benefits of single actions that novice like yourself have discovered.

You are not gaining benefits, you just telling yourself that, in reality, you are just scared to make your moves because you don't understand the game nor your opponent's intent. Once you have reached certain competency of the game, you won't be as scared.

Please try to make your point without insulting other people.

501 Elo is now considered "novice"?
501 Elo means I "do not understand the game"?
501 Elo means I am "not competent enough to avoid being scared"?

[FrankJones]

It’ll be better for the general group here if we focus on how to improve your gameplay. For example, a thread on middle game decisions would be significantly more beneficial than debating action sequencing.

Agreed.

So, maybe the elites who claim to be so concerned with helping us scrubs improve our game should lead the way by posting a middle-game analysis thread, and in the meantime, let us weak losers decide for ourselves how many actions we feel like doing.

[bwalsh96]

You are just looking for a fight. The moderators should just close this. You need to take a breath.

We are not saying you must take two actions. Is it the norm, yes. It is required, obviously not. You are stuck on the action sequencing when you should be improving other aspects of your game. Saying you don’t want to watch a top players game just proves my point. Alright, I’m outie. Enjoy writing another long page of commentary.

[FrankJones]

You are just looking for a fight. The moderators should just close this. You need to take a breath.

We are not saying you must take two actions. Is it the norm, yes. It is required, obviously not. You are stuck on the action sequencing when you should be improving other aspects of your game. Saying you don’t want to watch a top players game just proves my point. Alright, I’m outie. Enjoy writing another long page of commentary.

I am not looking for a fight. You seem to be the antagonistic one here.

I did not say I am unwilling to watch game replays to improve my game. I said I do not need to watch high-level game replays to re-evaluate my opinion on this 1-action or 2-action nonsense. We both seem to be in agreement that it is a nonsensical discussion, so I am not sure why you think I am looking for a fight?

As I said in my post, if you lead the way by posting a middle-game position from a game replay, I would participate in the analysis. But, you have not done that.

Look through your many high-level games, find one that you think would be good for analysis, and post it, and we can all analyze and learn. I have participated eagerly in several such discussions. Corvus, for example, has posted a few, and everyone seemed to benefit.

[FrankJones]

Seriously - I enjoy game analysis. If you or anyone else posts a game to analyze, I'll participate. I have, in the past 6-8 months, participated in every analysis thread posted.

But I really wish people stop insulting others who simply wish to decide for themselves how many actions they wish to take. It is not necessary to make the point by saying things such as, "Well, you're a novice who just isn't good enough to understand the point."

650 Elo versus 500 Elo isn't exactly Magnus Carlsen versus a 300 Elo chess player, and I think many people would appreciate it if the higher Elo players would stop acting that way.

[danielvictor]

Mostly,people do.Sometimes,you want to grab a heat or ocean tile bonus from the temperature track,or wait around for more oxygen,a higher temperature,or more oceans,so that you can play a card,and then you don't.