Prolonging losing game to make opponent run out of time

[Shivaware]

What do people think of someone that has no chance of winning the game if it finished normally, but they prolong the game so that their opponent runs out of time?

Luckily, this is not something I have had to deal with, but it seems to be happening in a Go tournament right now. The game has reached the stage where each player just has to agree that it is over, but the losing player is now making futile moves into the opponent's territory. The winning player has 2 days remaining on their clock, while the losing player has 8.

I'm wondering if this issue is limited to Go, or if there are other games where a player can prolong a game to such a great extent.

[Andrei3009]

What do people think of someone that has no chance of winning the game if it finished normally, but they prolong the game so that their opponent runs out of time?

Luckily, this is not something I have had to deal with, but it seems to be happening in a Go tournament right now. The game has reached the stage where each player just has to agree that it is over, but the losing player is now making futile moves into the opponent's territory. The winning player has 2 days remaining on their clock, while the losing player has 8.

I'm wondering if this issue is limited to Go, or if there are other games where a player can prolong a game to such a great extent.

I think this is highly unethical but a legal move. When starting a game in a tournament, you agree to finish it in the time or else being excluded\automatically lose

[nik592]

Well actually...

What is the code of conduct?

On Board Game Arena, you should not:

• Run out of time on the game clock.
• Leave a game in progress on purpose.
  
• Take an unnecessary and unreasonable amount of time at the end of game in an obvious losing position.
• Engage in Kingmaking: enabling another player to win on purpose while there is a better move to make for yourself.
• Give some piece of information about the current game situation that disturbs the normal game flow.
• Communicate with another player about the game privately (for example with an instant messenging app).
• Engage in provocation / triumphalism / defeatism... anything which is not fair play.
• Use an avatar that may be shocking or offensive to other players (no advertisement, no politics, ...)

Breaking these rules will affect your reputation.

(from the FAQ, emphasis mine)

[Shivaware]

Well actually...

What is the code of conduct?

On Board Game Arena, you should not:

• Take an unnecessary and unreasonable amount of time at the end of game in an obvious losing position.

Breaking these rules will affect your reputation.

(from the FAQ, emphasis mine)

Is it still an obvious losing position if you win?

[nik592]

Is it still an obvious losing position if you win?

If you win because the other player eventually runs out of time? I would say probably. I can't imagine how else you would interpret that rule.

That said, it doesn't mention how the rules affect your reputation. I'm not sure if you're supposed to report, or people were supposed to red thumb (back when red thumbs actually affected reputation), but I assume some intervention by the player would need to happen to affect anything.

[Shivaware]

Is it still an obvious losing position if you win?

If you win because the other player eventually runs out of time? I would say probably. I can't imagine how else you would interpret that rule.

That said, it doesn't mention how the rules affect your reputation. I'm not sure if you're supposed to report, or people were supposed to red thumb (back when red thumbs actually affected reputation), but I assume some intervention by the player would need to happen to affect anything.

I think the rule was probably intended for the usual non-tournament case where a player is just delaying their eventual loss out of spite.

The idea of "winning on time" definitely seems to be a philosophy that is baked into how games are implemented at BGA, so I have to agree with Andrei3009's assessment that it's highly unethical, but legal.

As I mentioned earlier, I think it's rare for a game to let a player play moves that delay the end to such an extent, so maybe this is best addressed in those game implementations. It might also be good if tournament organizers had the ability to easily exclude problem players from their tournaments.

[nik592]

I think the rule was probably intended for the usual non-tournament case where a player is just delaying their eventual loss out of spite.

I feel like that should be just as applicable, if not moreso in tournament play - in non-tournament play, you can't force a player to go out on time by wasting theirs because time is incremented each turn.

The idea of "winning on time" definitely seems to be a philosophy that is baked into how games are implemented at BGA, so I have to agree with Andrei3009's assessment that it's highly unethical, but legal.

I get this, but I feel this should be a case of your opponent took too long and you took the win based on that. If the game would have ended within time with both people playing reasonably (not taking moves deliberately designed to just waste time), that should be how it ends. I suppose you can argue that that's the unethical bit, although neither this or your thought on a player delaying loss out of spite are enforced in any programmatic way, so it's hard to say if they're legal or not.

To be honest, up until a few days ago, I had forgotten (or maybe was never aware) that that rule was in the code of conduct - I was looking for something else and just happened across it. And I immediately thought, oh, that's interesting, I'm sure there have been discussions about this before. And then suddenly this one popped up. But I guess my point is that probably lots of players aren't aware of that as being mentioned in the code.

[Mathew5000]

And I immediately thought, oh, that's interesting, I'm sure there have been discussions about this before.

I didn't find many threads where that provision of the code of conduct was quoted and specifically discussed:
• https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=79150
• viewtopic.php?t=22796

[nik592]

And I immediately thought, oh, that's interesting, I'm sure there have been discussions about this before.

I didn't find many threads where that provision of the code of conduct was quoted and specifically discussed:
• https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=79150
• viewtopic.php?t=22796

No, I meant discussions of whether a losing player is allowed to prolong the end game with the hope of making your opponent run out of time and lose.

[danielvictor]

I don't play Go,but part of the situation you describe is that the opponent has to think a little about defending against the 'futile moves'.So then taking advantage of having more thinking time is legitimate - if very annoying.