Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

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FrankJones
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Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by FrankJones »

FDHenneberg wrote: 18 January 2026, 08:12
FrankJones wrote: 18 January 2026, 08:01
I'll remind everyone that the main topic in this thread was player conceding at the last-minute (and thus neutralizing the game state, stats, and score) AFTER playing past the point where the outcome was obviously decided.
True, but I invite everyone to take into account that this thread has evolved. If people would’ve stayed with the exact topic, this thread would probably have two pages or three, not 23. The reason for me and I guess many others to participate in this thread was a) that there were comments clearly aimed at every form of conceding and b) to discuss if this thread is just for venting (totally ok) or if there’s actually something than can be done to stop people from conceding at the very end - which I dislike as much as nearly everyone else - without abolishing conceding in general.
True, the thread has evolved.

There are, I think, at least three different conversations taking place.
1) Last-minute or final-play concessions
2) Concession in general
3) Whether games on BGA are analogous or comparable to other art forms or popular sporting events.

Personally, since conceding is not allowed, ever, in a 3+ player game, I have no objection to disallowing it (at least in some circumstances) in 2-player games.

I've made clear my stance on conceding during the final move (and it sounds as though you share my stance there), though I'll note that quite a few players have indicated they see nothing wrong with it.

I wish we simply had more settings options when creating a table. For 2-player games, the table creator could have a toggle setting similar to other game settings:


"
Allow conceding:
1) at 50%
2) at 50% but not after 75%
3) at 50% but not after 90%
4) Never
"

etc.

Of course, this has problems since the progression percentage is often nonsense, but, as long as each player agrees to a game setting, neither player should have an objection.

I would always create tables (in thematic strategy games) that would have a cutoff (probably 75%), and anyone who finds that an infringement of their time can elect not to join my table. Similarly, if I see someone has created a take with "concede anytime after 50% with no cutoff", I would not join.

For abstract strategy games that do not involve scoring, I would use the setting "concede anytime", for example, connect6 or Chess.
Most players would likely be willing to join my table, and any player who still feels conceding is objectionable even in those games would not join my table.

And then everyone can be happy.
:)
Andrei3009
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by Andrei3009 »

Given the number of people against giving up, it would be wise to make an option to disable the ability to give up. HOWEVER you cannot add this option as a possible option for arena. i am Not sure about tournaments
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tbhp
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by tbhp »

Andrei3009 wrote: 18 January 2026, 09:08 Given the number of people against giving up, it would be wise to make an option to disable the ability to give up. HOWEVER you cannot add this option as a possible option for arena. i am Not sure about tournaments
But arena and tournaments are precisely where you don't want to see any conceding. I don't care if someone concedes during a normal game (unless maybe if I was having an exceptional game). So giving an anti-conceding option just for normal games would be a bit ironic and rather useless.
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FDHenneberg
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by FDHenneberg »

I’m curious what others will be having to say. I agree with Andrei - it’s a fair assumption that playing Arena is about winning, not about having one’s combos play out in the best way possible. Imagine there was a real-life tournament, you’re in the semi final. You’ve been playing the whole day and you’re looking to compete for the overall win. If your opponent stood up, reached out their hand to shake yours, and said, hey, you’re just the better one today, I give up. Would you really tell them they are an awful, selfish person? I’d never concede in a real life game group, but in a real life competitive situation, it seems to be ok to me.

Not saying this would be appropriate for BGA tournaments as many of them are just for fun and not at all competitive, unlike Arena. It would make sense to have that as a setting for the person who sets up the tournament.

Edit: as this is about the option of banning conceding, everything I say refers to conceding as such, not to conceding on the last turn/very late in the game.
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tbhp
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by tbhp »

FDHenneberg wrote: 18 January 2026, 17:05 I’m curious what others will be having to say. I agree with Andrei - it’s a fair assumption that playing Arena is about winning, not about having one’s combos play out in the best way possible.
The two things go together. The higher the stakes of a game, the more you would want that game to be played properly, without any hiccups. You wouldn't want a world cup final to be ruined by some incident, would you?
FDHenneberg wrote: 18 January 2026, 17:05 Imagine there was a real-life tournament, you’re in the semi final. You’ve been playing the whole day and you’re looking to compete for the overall win. If your opponent stood up, reached out their hand to shake yours, and said, hey, you’re just the better one today, I give up. Would you really tell them they are an awful, selfish person?
I don't know what I'd think of them, but yes that would be the situation where I would be mad, where it would feel like a profound loss I would never really recover from. Why would I care so much if it was just a random game with friends?

Winning a tournament is not just about winning, it's about the whole story and aesthetics of how it happens. If we only cared about winning, we wouldn't be playing games that involve artful design and intelligent mechanisms, we'd just be playing rock paper scissors and be happy with it.
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ChiefPointThief
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by ChiefPointThief »

The sports analogy isn’t a good one as it pertains to the thread title. Typically in sports the victor doesn’t care about making a “last move” because the win is already secured. In basketball they could have a easy lay up but will instead just dribble out the clock, American football they take a knee and don’t run a play, & baseball the home team doesn’t even take the field in the final inning (because there’s no need to they’ve won already) & the game is just over.
Andrei3009
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by Andrei3009 »

Everything depends on how competitive you are. If winning is not so important to you, then of course giving up in the arena will make you angry. However, a lot of people come to the arena/tournaments to compete and test their skills. If you make an arena without conceding, competitive people will have nowhere to play, however, if you do not prohibit it, casual players can still play with the option to ban giving up in normal mode. I also completely forgot that it is not possible to concede in tournaments, which I think is a very bad idea, we need to add this as an option.
tbhp wrote: 18 January 2026, 17:14 If we only cared about winning, we wouldn't be playing games that involve artful design and intelligent mechanisms, we'd just be playing rock paper scissors and be happy with it.
I strongly disagree with your statement. Most people play tournaments to test and show how they have learned certain game mechanics. Rock paper scissors is a boring game that does not require intelligence, but only reaction, I would classify it as sport, not game.

And I disagree about the beautiful design of the games for personal reasons - I don't really care about the design and theme of the game, I'm only interested in the intellectual part. But I realize that I'm more of an exception.
FrankJones
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by FrankJones »

FDHenneberg wrote: 18 January 2026, 17:05 I’m curious what others will be having to say. I agree with Andrei - it’s a fair assumption that playing Arena is about winning, not about having one’s combos play out in the best way possible. Imagine there was a real-life tournament, you’re in the semi final. You’ve been playing the whole day and you’re looking to compete for the overall win. If your opponent stood up, reached out their hand to shake yours, and said, hey, you’re just the better one today, I give up. Would you really tell them they are an awful, selfish person? I’d never concede in a real life game group, but in a real life competitive situation, it seems to be ok to me.

Not saying this would be appropriate for BGA tournaments as many of them are just for fun and not at all competitive, unlike Arena. It would make sense to have that as a setting for the person who sets up the tournament.

Edit: as this is about the option of banning conceding, everything I say refers to conceding as such, not to conceding on the last turn/very late in the game.
Not a great example. I've heard of terraforming mars tournaments where points scored sometimes determines who advances.
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tbhp
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by tbhp »

Andrei3009 wrote: 18 January 2026, 18:15 Everything depends on how competitive you are. If winning is not so important to you, then of course giving up in the arena will make you angry. However, a lot of people come to the arena/tournaments to compete and test their skills. If you make an arena without conseding, competitive people will have nowhere to play, however, if you do not prohibit it, casual players can still play with the option to ban giving up in normal mode.
Except I explained that it's the opposite, the more people care about games, the more they'll care about both winning and games being played properly, without conceding. So the discussion is not about casual players, it's about players who are competitive and hate conceding, which your post fails to address.

There may be some people who are competitive and are okay with conceding, but that doesn't give them the right to decide the outcome of games. They could easily still play in arena, they would just need to accept the rule that they can't concede, just like there are many other rules you have to accept when you sign up to play a game competitively. This is just one more of them.
Fuchur
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Re: Can we stop conceding with one move to go?

Post by Fuchur »

tbhp wrote: 18 January 2026, 18:41
Andrei3009 wrote: 18 January 2026, 18:15 Everything depends on how competitive you are. If winning is not so important to you, then of course giving up in the arena will make you angry. However, a lot of people come to the arena/tournaments to compete and test their skills. If you make an arena without conseding, competitive people will have nowhere to play, however, if you do not prohibit it, casual players can still play with the option to ban giving up in normal mode.
Except I explained that it's the opposite, the more people care about games, the more they'll care about both winning and games being played properly, without conceding. So the discussion is not about casual players, it's about players who are competitive and hate conceding, which your post fails to address.

There may be some people who are competitive and are okay with conceding, but that doesn't give them the right to decide the outcome of games. They could easily still play in arena, they would just need to accept the rule that they can't concede, just like there are many other rules you have to accept when you sign up to play a game competitively. This is just one more of them.
You really seem to be on a crusade against conceding, but i still don't get it why ? Seems nearly a religious fanaticism. What gives YOU the right to decide what should be done or not ?

Before claiming for hard measures i think everybody should calm down and lay some numbers on the table : How often does this happen to you (in proportion of all your games) and why did your gaming partner concede ?

There were several reasons mentioned why one shouldn't concede :
  • The conceder tries to avoid a loss : This shouldn't happen and if it does (for certains games) it's just a bug which needs correction.
  • The statistics aren't calculated : Ask the guy who implemented the game on BGA to provide these even if someone conceded.
  • You can't concede in multiplayer-games : That's wrong. There are some games where one player can drop out and the others continue without him. This might be difficult or impossible to implement for all other games.
  • Some obscure reasoning about the "beauty of a completed game" ??? Same with "properly played games" ? Sorry, i don't understand this.
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