another gap question

[dmpr0]

i got clued whites, knowing my 1 as playable


Gemmy responded with k5 after my w1, and in my opinion that's it - the bluff is revealed, there was no gap for somebody to guarantee a layer. but I was called a noob and even kicked out from the next game lol

if this was supposed to be a layer, how do skip bluffs and double bluffs work then? IMO layer can only be assumed with a gap, and there was no gap between w1 and k5

https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=884089337 move 20

[Romain672]

It's the same situation than last time.

Take what you know about Oktryit's pov (from Kaznaka's pov).
Can Oktryit clue k5 and make the move goes wrong?
They could clue a potential w4 on Kaznaka's hand, and then the clue still work.
So here strangly the answer is clear: Oktryit can't mess up the clue.

Which mean that w1+k5 will be played, and after your w3 will be known.

.

But now the clue is complex. Does the clue get enough things to be worth the complexity of it?
Here you do an out of position bluff to get a duplicated card and a known w3.
That's absolutely not enough.
That's one of the rare cases where you play not to resolve another player's pov, but because the clue given would be too complex for the gain.

I wanted to give you another example, but that seem way too much context dependant and rare.

[_mg6maciej_]

Yes, it's just a bluff. Just because a clue is bad, doesn't mean the meaning of it should change. And just like in a previous thread, you should avoid bluffing like that from distance because of possibility the next player assumes it's a finesse for them and does something to mess up the bluff.

A better move by Kaznaka would be to discard 5k at this point. This would achieve a few things:
1) let oktryit clue a stacked finesse with either 3 clue to dmpr (better than white, splash saving 3k) or even white/4 to 4w if Kaznaka has or draws it
2) if oktryit doesn't clue white cards finesse there are still two good things that can happen: either Gemmy delays 5k GD play (very unlikely) and stacked finesse can be clued next round or Gemmy draws a playable like 1r or 4y and someone can clue an actual layered
3) this is the most important part: by disacarding 5k and going up in clue count you encourage oktryit to clue (3 to dmpr is an obvious choice) and 3g is preserved for more turns; giving this clue (even if some group agrees that reverse bluff is not a thing and a clue like that is always layered) should suggest the opposite, that someone has the other copy of 3g and all other players should be making mental notes about this choice by Kaznaka