Weak Cards Banlist Discussion!

[grnt]

I think growing farm is a very fun card, and it looks impressive when it's good, but I think the situations it is good in are almost exclusively win more situations outside of 2 room growth strategies

[EuroGamez]

I think growing farm is a very fun card, and it looks impressive when it's good, but I think the situations it is good in are almost exclusively win more situations outside of 2 room growth strategies

Growing Farm is only banned in 1 or 2 player games. I don't think 2 room growth strategies are a thing in 2 player games. At least I've never really seen any in my many many games... But if you have some cool 2 room wins in 2-player I'd love to see the replays.

[alexwjb]

It's now been a little while since I finished implementing the last cards. I think there are two cards worthy of consideration for the weak banlist.

Sweep: "Each time before you use the action space above the most recent round 1-14 action space, you get 2 clay." I have never seen this even be played, let alone successfully. I think it is possibly as bad as the very worst cards (Catcher / Breeder Buyer etc).

Publican: "Each time before another player takes an unconditional Sow action, you can give them 1 grain from your supply to get 1 bonus point." Even worse than the already-weak-banned Paymaster, since you are giving your opponent grain at the moment they would most want it.

Opinions?

[torvaldur_makan]

It's now been a little while since I finished implementing the last cards. I think there are two cards worthy of consideration for the weak banlist.

Sweep: "Each time before you use the action space above the most recent round 1-14 action space, you get 2 clay." I have never seen this even be played, let alone successfully. I think it is possibly as bad as the very worst cards (Catcher / Breeder Buyer etc).

Publican: "Each time before another player takes an unconditional Sow action, you can give them 1 grain from your supply to get 1 bonus point." Even worse than the already-weak-banned Paymaster, since you are giving your opponent grain at the moment they would most want it.

Opinions?

I agree. Ban Growing Farm, Publican and Sweep.

Sweep is not only bad but also such poor design. I would never be able to build a strategy around it because my brain can't intuitively think of which action space it would be. Much like cards referring to "action space cards revealed before the most recent harvest".

Growing Farm is also a bad and poorly designed card. The requirement is complicated and the effect is too. If it was a good card, maybe I could learn how it works but now I just read the name and go to the next card.

[EuroGamez]

I am fine with those card being added to the list.

I do think that oven site should be taken off the 1-2 player weak card list though. It's actually a good card in 2 player games, IF you have a good clay source (which can be hard to get), but definitely a playable card and wood injection is always good at those player counts. And with less players having both fireplace and cooking hearth isn't that strange. THe cards low rating has more to do with the difficulty of getting clay than the card itself (at 1-2 players)

One card I could see being added to the weak list is Grain Thief, it's maybe not at the bottom of the rankings but that card is just unplayable (for its own effect). THe only reason to play it would be to trigger "play occ" things. At least for 2-player games).

[cranesflyhigh]

While I definitely would like the list to be extended, I think a fresh dataset on PWR ranks would help make it clear that Mill Wheel absolutely needs to go on the list.

[silverriver]

It's now been a little while since I finished implementing the last cards. I think there are two cards worthy of consideration for the weak banlist.

Sweep: "Each time before you use the action space above the most recent round 1-14 action space, you get 2 clay." I have never seen this even be played, let alone successfully. I think it is possibly as bad as the very worst cards (Catcher / Breeder Buyer etc).

Publican: "Each time before another player takes an unconditional Sow action, you can give them 1 grain from your supply to get 1 bonus point." Even worse than the already-weak-banned Paymaster, since you are giving your opponent grain at the moment they would most want it.

Opinions?

Yes, I agree with this. It's like you said, even paymaster is better than publican.

[grnt]

I think growing farm is a very fun card, and it looks impressive when it's good, but I think the situations it is good in are almost exclusively win more situations outside of 2 room growth strategies

Growing Farm is only banned in 1 or 2 player games. I don't think 2 room growth strategies are a thing in 2 player games. At least I've never really seen any in my many many games... But if you have some cool 2 room wins in 2-player I'd love to see the replays.

My point wasn't that it's good, it was that it's a niche card that occasionally looks strong in 4p, but it's deceiving because it only looks good when the spot itself is already very good. (meaning I think it's actually even worse than it seems)